Could a criminal/thug use the "god give us free will" defense?
Let's say someone walks up to you and points a gun at you. They read out "If you don't give me your wallet, I'm going to shoot you. I'm not telling you what to do, you may freely choose to do as you please, I'm a moment ago telling you what's gonna happen if you don't impart me your wallet".
So, if you give this person your wallet contained by order to be saved from human being shot, is it a fact that you gave it to him of your own free will, or did you bestow it to him because he coerced you to do so?
Answers:
if someone pointed a gun to my head and said give me your money, i would. but i would bring in it very clear that this is a gift, he's not robbing me.
if he wants my money bad enough to threaten my time, he can have it.
No. Free will will get you reformatory time if you're caught. You go the opposite route, insanity defense, you did not hold the mental capacity to understand the outlook of your actions. Let's say neither do has free will in your interview. The "thug" is hallucinating and has no idea of what they are doing and the subject is being coerced.
anyone with partially a brain that barely functions knows to purely give the wallet....
free will .... they guy gave the wallet because he didnt want to get shot but the guy near the guy could have shot him anyway the guy with the wallet made his choice and took the coincidence that the guy with the guy would not shoot him that would not be a defence fot the guy next to the guy because he was in the wrong his free will be to commit a crime... it would not hold up in court =) He was person a thug and somewhere in his life his granma to told in the order of right and wrong...
That's not exactly free will when a gun is pointed at your skipper - it is armed robbery for which you get accused of a crime not a "sin".
Of Course
Because with freewill comes resposnisbility for choices
If you choose to reject God, Hell awaits
If you choose to break the directive, Jail awaits
I don't think it will help
You do anything you can to survive, It is more far-reaching than money. Money doesnt mean anything.
Except the criminals enjoy to answer to a higher power
Can I tell you about something God did of his own free will? We chose Hell for eternity when we go our own way and became God's enemy. But he loved us so much, that he made a way of escape! He died for you and me on the cross. We broke his Law, but He paid our fine! He can immediately forgive us of all our sins. All we have to do to receive his let off, is Believe he died for us, and trust him alone to save us. He loves you more than anyone else can! You can come to him just as you are. Why don't you read the gospel of John contained by the New Testament? It has some wonderful promises in it!
No, newly like no one can use that argument. Source(s): Atheist.
You mean to read out that hell is the gun.
But you should know something about God.
God is Love.
Love can't be forced on to anybody, it can only be freely official.
If love were forced, it would become slavery, and would contradict love itself!
Now, you would say, that a loving God would of late give up on the rejected love and let humanity walk its way.
But this state is called hell. Hell is an unnatural state specifically completely free of God, that is, completely free of love.
God cannot stop anybody from going to hell if he chooses, but pleads with humanity similar to a desperate lover: "We were meant for respectively other."
--B16
That is silly !
Criminal don't think similar to that. By the way if people want to progress to the homo section they don't need you to suggest it
The existence of coercion and duress do trump the whole free will canard. Good show.
Free will is not at gun point.
God gives us free will because he uses no Gun. Source(s): Catholic
it be the criminals free will to take the wallet in the first place ....he didnt enjoy too!
No, duress is not free will
Gunpoint is not free choice, if it is later I don't know what coercion is. Free will is truly having the option to not do something, no strings attached.
Second, free will can't be used as an argument by anyone who does not know your intention. Thus the travel case for religion/God designing free will and man/human laws on free will are different. To illustrate: there's a difference between a really poor man stealing bread because he has no other path to live, and a relatively poor man who steals for convenience or because he doesn't want to work hard. Both are punishable by human standards, but God would forgive the first case.
To give some detail: Under Islamic law, a ruler may not imprison anyone who steals out automatically when hunger forces him to such an act. It is the ruler's job to provide for his nation, and if people have begin stealing, the highest authority in the state and anyone else responsible for that man's unfinished needs must abdicate his seat and own someone worthier elected, because crimes are usually a sign of bad governance. The man who stole the bread/food would be guiltless. This only applies to chief needs, obviously; not stealing gold ingots and silver.
---
Edit: Response to Asker's comment on C's answer:
Are you seriously equating a carrot and stick situation with a gunpoint situation? Do you not see the irony of having a life-or-death choice on one mitt, and stating it's the same as the tactic every teacher uses for their student, every establishment for their force, every government to burn out corruption? Surely you appreciate the difference!
Even if you don't - please re-read my original post. I did say aloud that a crucial difference between God-made free will and man-made free will is intention. Man has no way of knowing the intention of the guilty - he can solely work with what he can prove. If proven guilty, so be it. It doesn't matter if his intention be noble if it can't be proven. Whereas God knows and rewards a man for his intention alone, righteous movements following the intentions are further rewarded 10 times over. That is the Islamic system of rewards.
Punishment is much milder. Even with intention and action following it, you are not automatically thrown surrounded by hell. Each negative deed merits one denial point, and each positive deed merits 10 points. The reward is easier, bigger and a far more unadulterated possibility than the penalty. Even a non-believer gets rewards, even compassion to animals merits rewards. A smile to weary traveller is rewarded. You tell me if that's an amply tolerant system.
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So, if you give this person your wallet contained by order to be saved from human being shot, is it a fact that you gave it to him of your own free will, or did you bestow it to him because he coerced you to do so?
Answers:
if someone pointed a gun to my head and said give me your money, i would. but i would bring in it very clear that this is a gift, he's not robbing me.
if he wants my money bad enough to threaten my time, he can have it.
No. Free will will get you reformatory time if you're caught. You go the opposite route, insanity defense, you did not hold the mental capacity to understand the outlook of your actions. Let's say neither do has free will in your interview. The "thug" is hallucinating and has no idea of what they are doing and the subject is being coerced.
anyone with partially a brain that barely functions knows to purely give the wallet....
free will .... they guy gave the wallet because he didnt want to get shot but the guy near the guy could have shot him anyway the guy with the wallet made his choice and took the coincidence that the guy with the guy would not shoot him that would not be a defence fot the guy next to the guy because he was in the wrong his free will be to commit a crime... it would not hold up in court =) He was person a thug and somewhere in his life his granma to told in the order of right and wrong...
That's not exactly free will when a gun is pointed at your skipper - it is armed robbery for which you get accused of a crime not a "sin".
Of Course
Because with freewill comes resposnisbility for choices
If you choose to reject God, Hell awaits
If you choose to break the directive, Jail awaits
I don't think it will help
You do anything you can to survive, It is more far-reaching than money. Money doesnt mean anything.
Except the criminals enjoy to answer to a higher power
Can I tell you about something God did of his own free will? We chose Hell for eternity when we go our own way and became God's enemy. But he loved us so much, that he made a way of escape! He died for you and me on the cross. We broke his Law, but He paid our fine! He can immediately forgive us of all our sins. All we have to do to receive his let off, is Believe he died for us, and trust him alone to save us. He loves you more than anyone else can! You can come to him just as you are. Why don't you read the gospel of John contained by the New Testament? It has some wonderful promises in it!
No, newly like no one can use that argument. Source(s): Atheist.
You mean to read out that hell is the gun.
But you should know something about God.
God is Love.
Love can't be forced on to anybody, it can only be freely official.
If love were forced, it would become slavery, and would contradict love itself!
Now, you would say, that a loving God would of late give up on the rejected love and let humanity walk its way.
But this state is called hell. Hell is an unnatural state specifically completely free of God, that is, completely free of love.
God cannot stop anybody from going to hell if he chooses, but pleads with humanity similar to a desperate lover: "We were meant for respectively other."
--B16
That is silly !
Criminal don't think similar to that. By the way if people want to progress to the homo section they don't need you to suggest it
The existence of coercion and duress do trump the whole free will canard. Good show.
Free will is not at gun point.
God gives us free will because he uses no Gun. Source(s): Catholic
it be the criminals free will to take the wallet in the first place ....he didnt enjoy too!
No, duress is not free will
Gunpoint is not free choice, if it is later I don't know what coercion is. Free will is truly having the option to not do something, no strings attached.
Second, free will can't be used as an argument by anyone who does not know your intention. Thus the travel case for religion/God designing free will and man/human laws on free will are different. To illustrate: there's a difference between a really poor man stealing bread because he has no other path to live, and a relatively poor man who steals for convenience or because he doesn't want to work hard. Both are punishable by human standards, but God would forgive the first case.
To give some detail: Under Islamic law, a ruler may not imprison anyone who steals out automatically when hunger forces him to such an act. It is the ruler's job to provide for his nation, and if people have begin stealing, the highest authority in the state and anyone else responsible for that man's unfinished needs must abdicate his seat and own someone worthier elected, because crimes are usually a sign of bad governance. The man who stole the bread/food would be guiltless. This only applies to chief needs, obviously; not stealing gold ingots and silver.
---
Edit: Response to Asker's comment on C's answer:
Are you seriously equating a carrot and stick situation with a gunpoint situation? Do you not see the irony of having a life-or-death choice on one mitt, and stating it's the same as the tactic every teacher uses for their student, every establishment for their force, every government to burn out corruption? Surely you appreciate the difference!
Even if you don't - please re-read my original post. I did say aloud that a crucial difference between God-made free will and man-made free will is intention. Man has no way of knowing the intention of the guilty - he can solely work with what he can prove. If proven guilty, so be it. It doesn't matter if his intention be noble if it can't be proven. Whereas God knows and rewards a man for his intention alone, righteous movements following the intentions are further rewarded 10 times over. That is the Islamic system of rewards.
Punishment is much milder. Even with intention and action following it, you are not automatically thrown surrounded by hell. Each negative deed merits one denial point, and each positive deed merits 10 points. The reward is easier, bigger and a far more unadulterated possibility than the penalty. Even a non-believer gets rewards, even compassion to animals merits rewards. A smile to weary traveller is rewarded. You tell me if that's an amply tolerant system.
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